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Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:34:00 - [1] Tempest (and fleet pest) needs looking at. It's nicheless, out 1v1 by the Hyperion, out sniped by everything, out ganked by the phoon. It's only used by pilots unable to let go of the nostalgia of massive wrecking hits - or ones too cheap to use the maelstrom. With the up coming tracking disruptor changes, one of the tempests biggest arsenals (it's speed + fall off) in it's primary rolls is seriously under threat. If I where to fix the tempest? I'd give it 7 turrets, and remove the damage bonus for a 10% fall off bonus, keeping the 2 launcher slots with an appropriate grid increase. I'd also introduce falloff scripts for tracking computers. It follows on neatly to the Vargur bonuses and provides a ship and a fighting style different to anything existing currently.
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.04 15:06:00 - [2] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 04/02/2008 15:07:16 Originally by: Zeoliter Are you insane? It's range might not be great but it's still the hardest hitting tier 2 BS in the game. Out-gunned by a blaster-boat? Whut? It's outganked by the phoon, out tanked by the phoon and the maelstrom and slower than the hyperion w/o rigs i'm afraid to say... I think you belong in the nostalgic tempest pilot category.
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.04 15:40:00 - [3] Originally by: sdthujfg Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 04/02/2008 15:07:16 Originally by: Zeoliter Are you insane? It's range might not be great but it's still the hardest hitting tier 2 BS in the game. Out-gunned by a blaster-boat? Whut? It's outganked by the phoon, out tanked by the phoon and the maelstrom and slower than the hyperion w/o rigs i'm afraid to say... I think you belong in the nostalgic tempest pilot category. Tempest is fine. Please elaborate.
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.04 16:21:00 - [4] Originally by: sdthujfg Originally by: Pattern Clarc Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 04/02/2008 15:07:16 Originally by: Zeoliter Are you insane? It's range might not be great but it's still the hardest hitting tier 2 BS in the game. Out-gunned by a blaster-boat? Whut? It's outganked by the phoon, out tanked by the phoon and the maelstrom and slower than the hyperion w/o rigs i'm afraid to say... I think you belong in the nostalgic tempest pilot category. Tempest is fine. You say it's fine, heres some reasons why it's not. Quote: It has fallen victim to many nerfs over time: - HP buff - ECM nerf - nos nerf - rigs being added to the game hurt it badly in many ways, including its "versatility" - other, smaller effects - it has low HP, low DPS for a ship with two DPS bonuses It can snipe, but it isn't really the best at it. It can do remote rep gangs too but its DPS is mediocre compared to what other similar-fit ships can do. No matter what it does, it can't beat a well-flown/fitted megathron without using EW due to the mechanics of null + disruptor range, it can't compete with pulse battleships in gangs, and probably can't beat those 1v1 either because they all have better tanks and more damage. The raven too completely outclasses the Tempest and even out-EW's it. Pretty much every tier 3 battleship smacks the tempest away with ease.
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.04 17:54:00 - [5] Wow, you've got to like the min/max EFT theory craft. With overloading, any notion that the tempest could just stay at fall off range and chip away at the megathron without the megathron either warping away or webbing the tempest is ludacris. I'm a gallente spec pilot myself, general latency is enough to screw up the balance which once presided over this sacred comparison. Nonetheless in the above, the tempest has an amazing 2% more EHP, 1000 dps which turns more into 900 dps against anything smaller than a Moon + a sensor booster vs the thron's 20% more damage, increased tracking and drone bay. The explosive damage type is great, until the 2x EANM/Exposive hardener combo is used (standard fit on most galente ships FYI), then it's all down hill. The neut might be useful against a cruiser but the cap damage done to a plated, cap injected setup is minimal. Why wouldn't I just use a phoon in this instance which at least does around the damage damage of a gank thron? The standard comparison aside, the tempest and minmatar BS line up now doesn't' measure well against any of the other races. The caldari who have now an amazing versatility in there battleship line up will just never have this problem. If the apoc changes go through, the tempest as a sniper, will be so far in the dirt it wouldn't even be worth using it. The token EW mod has become a relic of past times with the fall off bonus of the pest under threat by the new TD's. When confronted with the alternative, when is the Tempest actually the highest performer?
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:52:00 - [6] Originally by: prathe i dunno the tempest seems to be okay i have never had problems with the sniper version i think that maybe most of the problems that users suffer with are rather related to tactics and fittings rather than the base hull . fancy mathematics , dream scenarios and eft quoting aside . the tempest is a decent close range bs not amazing but not crap . long range it really shines optimal 145-150k falloff still gets some fairly sdecent hit rates at 180+ . it's a shock and awe weapon tbh The Abaddon and Maelstrom now out alpha the tempest, as well as doing more damage over time. The energy neutraliser is nice, however to fit it, you lose the use of a very valuble low slot (Damage control unit)
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:49:00 - [7] Proposed tempest setups. Bonuses: 7.5% ROF bonus, 10% bonus to fall off of Large Projectile Turrets Grid/CPU changed to fit the following. 6x 800mm Repeating Artillery II 2x Heavy Unstable Power Drain 100mn MWD II Heavy Cap Injector II Fleeting Web Sensor booster II Tracking Computer II (with 30% fall off ambit extension script) 2x 1600 Rolled Tungsten Plate 2x EANM II Gyrostabliser II Damage Control II 2x Ambit Extension I Rigs (now become stacking penalised) Trimark Armor Rig 75m3 Drone Bay 3x Bouncer II's With barrage, it would deal less than 600 dps +bouncers, 250-300 dps at 80km (optimal + fall off) with 800mm tracking is certainly different. Maybe even useful - Discuss.
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.05 15:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Maraleith Typhoon - what a great idea that was? Everyone knows its useless. So change it! But the arrogance of CCP refuses to acknowledge the LONG term minnie problem with this ship. Let's make it an alternative to the Dominix - torpedo spewing droneboat with a great armour tank. Adjust the DPS with a change in one bonus to drone damage and then balance out the dps. But I fear this cannot be done as it would be an admission that for YEARS CCP had the concept for this ship wrong. Tempest - utility gunboat - give it a tank - take away one non-turret high slot and give it two mid slots - do not change bonuses. Then all of a sudden people will go Hmm. Not very hard to do. And guess what? It is now a shield tanker, what it was allways meant to be looking at the Vargur - RIGHT? Malestrom - Pure Gunboat. Change this pile of dung. Give its sensors a range boost as its a tier three ship, so I don't need three sensor boosters to do what everyone else does with two. Make it the most agile and fastest battleship in the game by a decent margin. So it can either be used in sniper or autopest mode. And no; not a speed buff by 10% but by 20%. Then watch how many get used everywhere as skill points, skill as a pilot and teamwork determine best how to use this ship. No need to change dps as skills and rigs and fitouts will take care of the rest. I have to disagree with you. The Phoon, although stupidly skill intensive is an amazing ship. Near imbalanced due to the damage potential it now has combined with it's speed and slot layout. Maelstrom is one of my favourite ships in the game. Has the best mwd + sniper fit and for close range, it is the reason why no one uses an ac pest any more. And for what you want from it, the vargur provides.
Pattern Clarc Quam Singulari The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.11 11:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Neena Valdi Tempest is fine as fleet BS. It has 2 huge advantages over rail mega in fleet: 1. Capless guns. 2. Much higher alpha strike (alpha > dps as for sniper BS). Comparing tempest to mega is also a bit stupid, as you forgetting cap issues of mega. How long will you be able to shoot if there someone neutralizing your cap? Anyways. You want close range battleship go for phoon or maelstrom. You want a fleet BS - tempest is your choice. Capless guns are nice, but I can get them on a maelstrom for more alpha, more dps, and more HP. The damage, range and tracking is why the others would be use, the tempest just doesn't come up at all in any area when compared to the alternatives. It either needs a massive damage boost, or to be retasked into another role.

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